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Erotic Tales Via Clenched Teeth

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Wait ... is this a Pricing thread ?!


Scarlett B Wilde

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On 12/03/2020 at 3:00 PM, Tuatara said:

Something interesting today. After finishing a session with a WL at a FS place, she asked (in poor English) "more tip". Just to make sure I heard it correctly I asked "what did you say". So she repeated "more tip". Admittedly this session was awesome and I am about to complete the review.

 

My question is; is this the norm? Is that an expectation of WL's? Has anyone else encountered this?

 

Would any of you ladies reading this ask for extra as a result of a great session? 

 

So this is a very interesting question and I'd ask others to read back to original post to read the replies of others yet this sounds very much like a survivalist worker- despite whether it's a 'legal' brothel or not- I believe it's irrelevant because what we're talking about here is 'Privilege'. Both of worker and client.

I note that firstly - I'll name my privilege in this situation. I certainly wouldn't work for $150 - 250 per hour, because 

a. ) I'm a white / Caucasian educated woman ( at rate you'd probably believe I'm a fake, and I'm an Asian anyway )

b. ) I've studied ( worked over 9+) for sex work for over 6+ years ( somatic practises, sexological bodiwork, therapy practices, first aid, massage, kink / BDSM )

 

I see that Cara brought up some very valid and almost exact points I'd make yet I'd like to state that she too maybe be privileged and not see the situation for what it is. 

 

The worker on topic has minimal English skills, which would lead me to believe that her abilities to study or even access to education is limited. Those that are international students are charged $8500 per semester at university vs an Australian citizen that is charged $1500. So she's already on the back foot. Not only is her earning capacity a lot lower than mine, she's charged more for the privilege to exit this lower wage through the education systems.

 

This lack of education would them limit her ability to understand or comprehend the very legalities that Cara pointed out.

 

Now let's look at the legalities of the brothel worker ( illegal or not ). 
The workers in this situation are not getting all the monies handed over. A split of 60 -40 would be the norm, especially for a worker that can't negotiate in the same circumstances.  So of the $150 she receives $60 per hour. Not a bad wage you'd argue, yet wait !! .... there's more. 
She'll be charged a room or shift fee. Yes crazy yet if I want a worker to stay for the full 10-12hr shift this is a great way to do so, so I'll charge $80-120 for the shift. So now she has to see two clients just to cover that fee but wait !!!  .... there's more.


Most likely, again due to lack of education she won't know that the establishment has to provide the tools of the trade condoms, lube, or even towels. They probably make them do laundry as well. So lets say $20 per shift. 

So let's say for the shift she does she sees 6 clients. Not bad huh ? 6 x $60 = $360 for the day. That's $1800 for the workday week. 
wait ... there's the penalties applied 120 x 5 days = $500. So the total becomes $1300 plus the utilities 5 x $20 = $100, so now we're down to $1200 p/week.
I mean.. come on .... Not such a bad wage until you think that she's not an employee ?!  Yet there's still the tax.

So... there's no superannuation, sick pay, annual leave NO PRIVILEGES at ALL !  Plus she's working 60+ hours a week. Imagine how you'd feel after 3 months of 60hr weeks. The stress would lead to ill health, take a day off ?!  Well... that's coming out of my pay. Wait... I don't receive any ?

 

This may surprise you guys yet it's not always busy. Shock Horror !!   I just made a sum of 6 clients a day. What happens if it falls to 3 ?  or even 0 for a couple of days ? She's literally made no money for the week, that's a loss of $600 out of the week. You can see how getting that education we spoke about is near impossible huh ?  What about an English language course ?  What after a 10-12hr shift ? Nothing ventured nothing gained and yet you could see how difficult it would be, oh wait .... I'd need to pay for that wouldn't I ?

Then the kicker. What about STD. If she picked up something like say ... Chlamydia .  Very popular. A course of antibiotics would take a week to work and then she'd need to wait a week to get retested to make sure it's gone ( most people forget that part, hence that's two weeks off !! ) on the wage or no wage she's on ?  No way.. I'll keep working and hence BAM !!!  She starts infecting clients. 
Now I'll state as a Privileged worker this is disgusting to treat a client this way, yet what choice does she really have ?  
I can afford to take two weeks of hence the phrase ' When governments regulate, the price goes up' True guys. yet so does your physical health !  This girl has to work really hard ( more clients ) meaning she infects more and more... It's just a vicious cycle that most likely the worker' cops all the blame yet no one looks at the environment she finds herself in and offers help.
The brothel could certainly do more to help her, yet they won't because they know they can get away from it. If clients complain about her, like say .. " ohh... she's asking for tips", they push her along and get someone else to join the grinder. She now has no income.

 

Which leads to the 'extras / tip ' process.


You guys now may see why brothel workers add extras or ask for tips. It's because it's the only money the brothel doesn't get a cut of. It helps keep someone from falling through the gaps.

 

I'm not going to turn this into a pricing thread. Fuck that. I just invite you clients to consider when you're paying $150 per hour just what you may actually be contributing to. Most likely a brothels 3rd mortgage and a burnt out, and frustrated worker. I'm not shaming you for your choices. I just like to offer a voice to those that may not be able to speak up.

Personally I'd like to see more Asian service providers in these forums instead of a privileged worker such as myself on their behalf, yet the education boundaries we spoke of in the first paragraphs may lead to an understanding why they do not. 

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I don't know what state your in but in Victoria and the parlors I go to on a $120 half hour bookings the girls get between $70 and $79 cut depending on which place ..edit I just saw your from NSW if that is the split there maybe that's why there are so many fly in fly out girls in Vic down from Sydney I also just thought it was to work away from where they live and are known..

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What I have learned is that these girls have to take time off when it is period time. They don’t get paid. No income for 3 or 4 days. Furthermore I learned that some of these girls have to stay the night at the shop because when they finish at 2am there is no public transport. They have to pay rent for the room to sleep in. They are paying rent where they are living and then pay rent at the shop. Those poor girls. 
As clients we need to be more sympathetic.

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24 minutes ago, Tuatara said:

What I have learned is that these girls have to take time off when it is period time. They don’t get paid. No income for 3 or 4 days. Furthermore I learned that some of these girls have to stay the night at the shop because when they finish at 2am there is no public transport. They have to pay rent for the room to sleep in. They are paying rent where they are living and then pay rent at the shop. Those poor girls. 
As clients we need to be more sympathetic.

is that sympathetic or sycophantic

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Scarlett B Wilde

Posted

20 hours ago, savoy111 said:

.....maybe that's why there are so many fly in fly out girls in Vic down from Sydney I also just thought it was to work away from where they live and are known..

 

There's many reasons why a WL tours for myself, I've chosen Canberra and Adelaide as I clients whom pull me down there, then I'm free to see others, otherwise I wouldn't. But it's actually good for a change of scenery. 

 

I will state that touring costs, so it's an expense that can really up for outgoings which means you'd want to make sure you're able to make a profit.

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Scarlett B Wilde

Posted

19 hours ago, Tuatara said:

...They have to pay rent for the room to sleep in. They are paying rent where they are living and then pay rent at the shop. Those poor girls. 
As clients we need to be more sympathetic.

 

I certainly don't want to paint the industry as this horrible occupation, just information sharing about what it's actually like to be a WL.
I'm not sure if being sympathetic is desirable, yet being empathetic and understanding certainty helps in many situations and in the case of something as imitate as sexual services, will probably amount to a more enjoyable time for both .

Thanks for sharing...

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I have been thinking recently of starting a "ethical punting" discussion. I wonder if clients would still visit parlours if they knew the realities of what happens behind closed doors. 

 

While not wanting to paint the industry as a horrible occupation, the reality of a lot of peoples experiences are different to what the "top-tier" earners experience

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CaptainDarling

Posted

We've had a few discussions like that in the past.

 

Worse case the grumpy guys feel they are being lectured or told lies to get them to spend more on seeing private escorts.  When the feel they are being lied to or manipulated they react with very poor grace.

 

Best case, some.brothels are known to be way worse than others and the information is made available for people to make ethical choices. Whether the do make ethical choices or not is a whole other discussion.

 

In my experience brothels are like real estate.

 

Is it better to be the best run brothel in the area but empty of clients?

 

Or is it better to be one of the worst run in area but plenty of clients, plenty of rooms, plenty of choice?

 

I've never done sex work obviously, but my intuition tells me the only way to have a good boss in the sex industry is to be self employed, and then you have other problems like rent and security etc

 

You could even argue that brothels are like fast food, and that taking good care of the staff is the opposite of their business model, as their success is built upon screwing the staff down to the lowest possible rate and the most inexpensive working conditions.

 

Some people I care about have done both brothel and private work - and their pov seems to be "brothels are fine until they are not, then it's definately time to go private"

 

I guess one role brothels serve is it allows very unpleasant ladies to bully and be generally unpleasant to other working ladies, and without brothels those ladies would need to stick to cyberbullying via Twitter! Lol

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Scarlett B Wilde

Posted

21 hours ago, CaptainDarling said:

... Whether the do make ethical choices or not is a whole other discussion.....

 

I believe that's probably the best way going forward though Captain. As long as it's an informed decision then it is what it is. Someone convinced against their will isn't convinced ?!

 

It certainly isn't a black or white situation, and it's certainly not a good vs evil debate either, just a conflict of interests and care.

 

22 hours ago, JaneSmith said:

I have been thinking recently of starting a "ethical punting" discussion. I wonder if clients would still visit parlours if they knew the realities of what happens behind closed doors.

 

Maybe a rating system may help ?
Whom would do that ?  If decrim was an option then how about the industry self regulating ?
Interesting thoughts...

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CaptainDarling

Posted

Self regulation...

 

Like the banks self-regulate?

 

Like the building industry self regulation?

 

Like the financial planning self regulation

 

Like the sports grants self regulation?

 

Lol

 

Just lol :)

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geriatric trev

Posted

On 19/03/2020 at 11:30 AM, JaneSmith said:

I have been thinking recently of starting a "ethical punting" discussion. I wonder if clients would still visit parlours if they knew the realities of what happens behind closed doors. 

Ethical Punting? Now there's a thing. So to be entirely ethical punters should be all in perfect health, completely unattached, and with a healthy bank balance as well as being totally STI free. They should also only visit sexworkers who are ethical ie those who pay their full share of tax, do not use devious underhanded advertising including the use of fake photos and provide a genuine as advertised service.

An "ethical punter" would expect an "ethical Sexworker" to provide an ethical experience without hype hubris or cheating.

Both punters and workers would trust each other and would show each other results a STI check ( giving full contact details) no longer than 7 days prior.

Yes it would work for me but I doubt that may would be interested.

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geriatric trev

Posted

27 minutes ago, CaptainDarling said:

Self regulation...

 

Like the banks self-regulate?

 

Like the building industry self regulation?

 

Like the financial planning self regulation

 

Like the sports grants self regulation?

 

Lol

 

Just lol :)

In actual fact can you name any instance where self regulation works?

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CaptainDarling

Posted

1 hour ago, geriatric trev said:

In actual fact can you name any instance where self regulation works?

Well that's two questions.

 

The first answer is "no I am unaware of successful self regulation anywhere in the economy"

 

But the next answer is  .I'm am also unaware of any society or community that has zero regulation and is thriving. Anarchist have some great t-shirts and rock'n'roll I think,  but I've never met any that live 100% off the grid and don't 'lean' on taxpayer's.

 

...so I think some regulation is for the greater good - eg the road rules, the criminal justice system, the environment protections, good safety regulations, building regs etc

 

But the people that bypass the regulations are not necessarily bad either eg

 

Poor people avoiding tax

 

Sex workers doing in-calls at their homes

 

Massage girls helping guys relax after a back rub

 

People growing their own dope

 

Etc

 

 

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Scarlett B Wilde

Posted

I believe you've hit the nail on the head Captain. 
No, not every one is going to to play fair - nothing in life is 100%, yet I do see value in a community attempting to set standards.
I guess these forums are a great example of how not everyone will get along, yet in general it works.

Of course you'll get bad apples. Like take the Police force. I genuinely believe that the police force is a good thing, yet of course we can show examples of incredibly bad behaviour as well. Maybe focusing our intentions on the positive and help those grow ?

I'm not stating that we must pretended that there's no weeds in our gardens, just that ... a 'common sense' will prevail as human beings I believe we know instinctively how to do that.

 

Looking at the world all black and white leaves out far to many colours of the spectrum.

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I think Ethical punting and ethical sex work are likely only to exist where ethical people are involved. Even an uber style rating system is corruptable by the unethical. Our best defences and our greatest assets in attaining the ethical is to listen to your gut when something does not feel right and to try ensure you always have a way to exit an unwanted situation safely. This is why personally most of my patronage in Queensland occurs in licensed brothels. They provide the greatest opportunity for an ethical encounter for both parties. I increase my chances by always being open and honest about my preferences and boundaries and never trying to take any more than what has been offered by a WL. Good times had by all, not sure why others feel they are going to have a better experience long term by behaving otherwise. 

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geriatric trev

Posted

On 01/02/2021 at 12:55 AM, solojam said:

I think Ethical punting and ethical sex work are likely only to exist where ethical people are involved.

That's an interesting problem. Is it ethical for married men to pay other than their wives or partners for sex? Is it ethical for married females to engage in sex work?

Well ethically no its not. Females generally are opposed to males married single or otherwise paying for sex yet they will have their price... 

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1 hour ago, geriatric trev said:

That's an interesting problem. Is it ethical for married men to pay other than their wives or partners for sex? Is it ethical for married females to engage in sex work?

Well ethically no its not. Females generally are opposed to males married single or otherwise paying for sex yet they will have their price... 

Doing sex work or hiring sex workers can be ethical within a relationship. As long as respect is shown and consent pursued and given. 

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geriatric trev

Posted

18 hours ago, solojam said:

Doing sex work or hiring sex workers can be ethical within a relationship. As long as respect is shown and consent pursued and given. 

So there will not be a whole lot of ethical punters out there. Even those in so called open relationships still have boundaries... I don't know any punters who's wives or partners know about their habits nor do I know that many punters who even publically share details with their mates... 

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9 minutes ago, geriatric trev said:

So there will not be a whole lot of ethical punters out there. Even those in so called open relationships still have boundaries... I don't know any punters who's wives or partners know about their habits nor do I know that many punters who even publically share details with their mates... 

 

I disagree.  I've heard of relationships where the wife knows the guy 'punts'.  She doesn't ask, he doesn't tell.

Though this tends to happen in older couples.  Thinking 45 years +  The agreement is that they stay together.

The two main reasons for this are; financial and because of children.

I think couples realise these days how complex divorce can be so they make an agreement to live somewhat seperate lives but at the same time to stay together.

Though its rare, i've heard this happen more and more.  As a middle aged man myself it sort of makes sense.  Almost described as ethical 'punting'.  Everyone knows the stakes but the guy keeps his end of the bargain and doesn't run off with a younger women, in turn his wife won't divorce him and take him to the cleaners.

Lets face it, divorce Western style can leave a man stripped of all his assets hes worked for..  Not to mention she'll only get a % of that left over after court and lawyers fees, its not worth it these days.

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9 minutes ago, geriatric trev said:

So there will not be a whole lot of ethical punters out there. Even those in so called open relationships still have boundaries... I don't know any punters who's wives or partners know about their habits nor do I know that many punters who even publically share details with their mates... 

 

When I am talking about ethical punting I am thinking more about your interaction with the WL. Your interactions with family are not something i think as much about being a long term single manchild.

 

Plenty of single punters out there without those complications. I agree it is still hard to be open about punting socially, but that has more to do with stigma than ethics. I am open with some friends, but it is still hard and I still feel I have to be careful who I share this side of my life with. As long as you are not harming anyone do as you like. Moreover, be unethical if you choose in the end you only have to answer to yourself. 

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numbat101

Posted

29 minutes ago, geriatric trev said:

So there will not be a whole lot of ethical punters out there. Even those in so called open relationships still have boundaries... I don't know any punters who's wives or partners know about their habits

 

Mine does, also others on PP

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