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Punters and WLs posting 'style'


SimplySimone

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A topic which was subsequently locked as I was typing a response, included the comment:

 

"I have been a member of this forum for four years. I have never seen any working lady get such negative reactions from so many punters. In that time we have had plenty of working ladies speak their minds, and their opinions were respected. We continue to have working ladies, as regular contributors, who speak their minds. I think it fair to say we appreciate and value their input. I know I do."

 

My thoughts on this are that while WLs who express more moderate views are welcomed, I have witnessed outspoken ladies being attacked, or at the very least made to feel it isn't a place safe to express a forthright opinion in.

 

First example is Stephenie Hunter who stopped posting regularly before I joined. I have read quite a number of her contributions, including the thread she was recently active on (about luxury escorts who offer CBJ). I think she came under fire quite a lot of the time.

 

The other example is Inga Nord who also had a 'take no prisoners' style of debating. She also suffered a barrage of criticism.

 

There are many punters on this forum who have strong opinions. Some are extremely outspoken and make highly inflammatory statements. I won't name them, but the politics thread has a few good examples. These posters don't seem to get a fraction as much criticism as outspoken WLs. Why might that be?

 

Is it the boys' club nature of PP? Is it because some punters are misogynists? Of course radfems would say all punters are misogynists. Is it as simple as the old cliché about an opinionated man being "strong", but an opinionated woman being a "bitch"? I'm not sure.

 

For what it's worth, I haven't felt in any way shushed or quietened on PP, but suspect that may be due to the unusual position I hold as an ex WL and current punter. Many people disagree with my opinions (especially about price!) but we can usually agree to disagree and move on.

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Well Said SS, Love your style Xxxx. Of course PP is a boys club but one where women are most welcome too IMHO, especially where what they are saying is factual or based on some semblance of reality. The problem with the thread that you were mentioning is how it degenerated not really what was said as that was rather petty.  FYI I don't really buy the misogynist story as it takes 2 to tango and WL's are free to see whom ever they choose as are punters. 

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To be honest I don't think I suffered a 'barrage of criticism'.

I say what I think, I don't beat around the bush.

 

Some ppl take that personal and react ridiculous - so many times replies to my posts had to be edited as I got called the worst names incl a Nazi whore ( which I find particularly amusing as I have taken a stance against anything just remotely related to this mind set many times ) or was plainly told to 'fuck off'.

 

I like to stir the pot and point out the stupidity / hypocrisy in some threads - of course the usual suspects will jump on it, usually not very eloquent but abusive. That already makes me laugh to see them overreact like that, putting themselves in an inauspicious position by behaving this way.

Punters & SW's alike comment on my posts in this way, I polarise I assume.

But as Molière said 'Everybody's friend is not a friend for me' - I'm not for everybody.

 

Yes, this is a boys club for sure, but luckily I don't hang out here every single day so it doesn't really bother me, my reviews made me a lot of money and that's what you want from this site, isn't it?

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CaptainDarling

Posted

Ok, it's a slow night, and I'm trying not be to be in love with my masseuse, so I'll play along a little while.

 

Well sex forums (not just PP) are definitely boys clubs – or consumer oriented meeting places where the majority of consumers happen to be men. Perhaps a gated community or 'walled garden' would also describe the nature of sex forums.

 

I hesitate to use the word 'cult' to describe sex forums, even though there are formal rules and many informal ways to behave handed down from above etc. Sex forums typically have a boss, and the boss is assisted by middle managers. So generally the top-down structure of the business world is replicated in sex forums (yes - including the Glass Ceiling :D )

 

And of course like any boys club, its absolutely chock full of boys comparing the size of their nobs.

 

I think many men prefer to live in a word where they perceive themselves to be at or near the top of the pile. To get to the top, they need to kick sand in the faces of all the others. One simply cannot be an evil corporate overlord without causing thousands of others to lose out along the way. So with this in mind, there is a sort-of competitive 'my opinions are important and arguably more worthy than yours' dynamic going on, as each guy strives to put his stamp on each discussion.

 

The formal structure of most sex forums I'm aware of encourages women the play nice and not hurt the sex business. One example is some extremely dodgy things get said about workers in sex reviews and workers (women) are forbidden from commenting on what customers (men) have been saying. So if half of PP is about sex reviews, and half of PP is about everything else, women are totally barred from commenting on half the total content available across the review sites.

 

I suppose it's al lot like a marriage where one partner is only allowed to talk to her neighbour about how bad her husband is, and she isn't allowed to address the husband directly over all his shit. Nor can a lady come to the support of another lady very easily, unless she first decides to open herself up to Flak for 'certain types' of men.

 

That said, I don't see the current structure of sex forums as particularly unusual or even rare, as its basic for men to seek the company of other men when discussing how to have good sex with women.

 

If I owned a sex review site I probably wouldn't change it very much either. It's a lot like a blokes shed. A woman may wander in and see ugliness and mess, girly calendars on the wall, beer in the fridge and porn placing on a loop on the big screen TV. A guy will wander in and say “Maaaate! I love what you've done with the place”

 

My two cents

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@Daniel, thank you. Yes, agree the thread disintegrated rather rapidly. Re misogynism, I think PP is like a subset of the real world. Yes, some rather obvious misogynist and of course men at the other end of the scale too. I'm not a Radfem so don't think paying for sex = oppressing women.

 

@Inga, thanks for commenting, I've missed your posts! "Nazi whore" ouch. Of course, it only speaks to the mentality of that poster. Love the Molière quote, I will remember that.

 

@blakes7 - it's disappointing WLs can't comment on negative reviews, although I understand why. I would like WLs to be able to call men out on bad behaviour, but I suppose that will have to stick to the general forums. Could be too messy otherwise. I would love to see how a lot more female punters would change the dynamic of PP, but I dont see that happening soon. Not just the paying for sex, but contributing to sex forums isnt really something I see too many women having interest in. Great analogy with the shed!

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@SS The WL's comments on that thread bordered on Misandry. I think that what you were seeing was just a reaction by members to that. 

 

@Inga 

 

my reviews made me a lot of money and that's what you want from this site, isn't it?

 

Thank you for being so honest. This is the whole point of why WL's come on here not like the shit stirring BS comments that we were previously hearing from you know who. 

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That people get so invested in an online forum. Trying to change someone's deeply held belief face-to-face is almost always futile, on a forum it's even more so.

 

I just wish everyone would respect the girls and use this forum for what it's intended for.

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@ Dan:

You mean my stirring the pot?

Or you mean THAT woman & her entourage of numbnuts?

 

@ SS:

I get crap from certain SW's too - often I hv a good laugh at the

tone / vocabulary some ppl use here, an indicator for being issue

riddled to the core.

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@ Inga, No not you sweetie and sorry to hear that you got called a Nazi whore that's abhorrent!

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@SS I wrote the comment you quoted in this blog. The remainder of that comment went on to suggest that the WL in question should be ignored.

 

That was in the context of my belief that we have a WL who is incurring the ire of many members by comments which appear to indicate a certain contempt for men bordering on misandry. This is the first time I have seen such a widespread and negative reaction to any WL posting on this forum. The reaction seemed a consequence of the appearance of a negative attitude towards men.

 

Name calling and general lack of common courtesy seem an inherent part of internet communications. That is not unique to this forum. Argument is not unique to this forum although arguments on the net seem pointless exercises in futility. Punters argue with one another as well as arguing with the ladies. Even the ladies argue with one another on this forum.

 

This is, as pointed out by others, a very male forum. We do have every sort of man here ranging from the misogynistic to what is sometimes described as "white knights". I suggest the vast majority of members are decent and normal and human beings. A minority of misogynists and trolls do discredit to the forum. These comments pertain to the general forum.

 

As for the review forum, I think too many reviews have too much prurient and pointless detail and physical descriptions that are far too detailed. 

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@Ashantai, yes, deeply held views won't be shifted, agree. It can be fun to debate, but only when it remains about the topic, not the poster.

 

@Inga, tone and vocab are big give aways! Of course for many, English isn't a first

language, so I ignore the vocab and then look at attitude, entitlement etc

 

@kirsis, I think some posters style can be alienating. I would suggest there are punters who say things that are far more objectionable, but it seems there is greater tolerance for this than when a WL does so. Would you agree? Like you, I believe most members are decent, normal human beings.

 

I suspect some of the angst occurs when a WL illustrates how some punters are in that small group of misogynistic / time wasting / dirty / whatever-else-is-horrible, group. As a WL it's easy to forget this is the minority, because you have been personally violated by this punter's actions. A WL might see on average 5 clients a day and work 4 days that week. Of those 20 punters, one was dirty and the other tried to remove the condom. Now, there were still 18 'good' punters that week (or at least guys who didn't do anything awful), but as a WL, you think you had a terrible week because all you remember was the smegma encrusted guy and the guy who removed the condom in doggie. It would be easy to come across as a misandrist when recalling these experiences online, because they leave you feeling so disgusted and violated.

 

I have been told by a PP buddy that I can come across as man-hating. In reality, that's far from the truth, but if I start to recall some of my less glorious experiences as a WL it would be easy for people to think that.

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Can't say I've seen anything. If you write something on the Internet expect others not to agree. We are humans, have normal functioning brains and have all lived different lives. Plenty of members on this website and it happens to everyone, not just the two service providers you mentioned.

 

 

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Colonel Sanders

Posted

Imagine if someone on these forums had said something like "all women are <insert negative comment>" or "all escorts do <insert negative comment>".

 

Would you be surprised if such a person was met with a barrage of negative responses?

 

The person you are referring to did the above, except she replaced "all women" or "all escorts" with "all PP members".

 

Further the person in question when posting on PP, often falls into the bad habit of being literally all emotion and no logic, and then appears incapable of seeing that is how she has been posting.

 

I can't help but think of the response that Jack Nicholson gives to a fan of his character in the movie "As good as it gets", when he is asked how he writes female characters so well. 

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@ Colonel Sanders:

 

Can you pls enlighten me who the person in question is?

Or who else you are talking about or are you talking about only one person - sorry it's not clear to me.

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Colonel Sanders

Posted

@Inga Nord,

As Simone didn't reveal the name of the person in question, I don't feel comfortable doing so either, so I would suggest PM'ing Simone for more info. :)

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Somehow I might hv missed the point of this blog or didn't read closely enough, I thought it was a general observation about reactions towards posts of WL's.

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@kirsis, I think some posters style can be alienating. I would suggest there are punters who say things that are far more objectionable, but it seems there is greater tolerance for this than when a WL does so. Would you agree? Like you, I believe most members are decent, normal human beings.

 

I suspect some of the angst occurs when a WL illustrates how some punters are in that small group of misogynistic / time wasting / dirty / whatever-else-is-horrible, group. As a WL it's easy to forget this is the minority, because you have been personally violated by this punter's actions. A WL might see on average 5 clients a day and work 4 days that week. Of those 20 punters, one was dirty and the other tried to remove the condom. Now, there were still 18 'good' punters that week (or at least guys who didn't do anything awful), but as a WL, you think you had a terrible week because all you remember was the smegma encrusted guy and the guy who removed the condom in doggie. It would be easy to come across as a misandrist when recalling these experiences online, because they leave you feeling so disgusted and violated.

 

I have been told by a PP buddy that I can come across as man-hating. In reality, that's far from the truth, but if I start to recall some of my less glorious experiences as a WL it would be easy for people to think that.

 

I also think that some do have an alienating style of posting.

 

We do have some misogynists who seem more than willing to take any opportunity to belittle women. Apart from a minority of misogynists, I haven't noticed a difference in reactions when the subjects do not relate to sex or punting.   Sometimes gender based insults seem to be used as an "insult of convenience" to dismiss a different point expressed by a woman by a man who is not so much a misogynist but just plain horrible to all. On the other hand, some of the men are gentler with the ladies and some will stick up for the ladies when unfairly criticised. I am not sure how that balance of misogyny and support balances out. Perhaps the ladies notice the misogyny more than the support?

 

I think there is a difference when a WL posts negative generalisations about punters or comments of a mysandrist nature. That does get a negative reaction. That is to be expected on a mostly male forum. After all, if I were to post a misogynistic tweet I would expect to get a blast from some of the ladies (and punters) who follow me.

 

I do not think you come across as a man hater because you always speak of "some punters". Not wild generalisations or stereotypes about punters.

 

My 2 cents

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It's a boys club here with little tolerance for the different opinions. Some women are in the boys club though and some men (I hesitate to describe myself as a man) like me are not in the boys club.

 

The pricing threads are where all is revealed about somebody IMO

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I particularly value the ladies input; on a punting forum it provides balance and that necessary perspective which we guys need to keep it real. 

 

That said, the only abuse and unpleasantness I have encountered on this forum has been from a lady whom I believe misunderstood a well intentioned comment I made.  I don't for a minute think she is typical. Thats life. Move on.

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My observation is that yes at times WL's who post here can cop a fair bit of BS,  and some of the WL's have been very good at bouncing those guys right back.   It is a time tough job what the WL's do, and would have to have incredible resilience to do what they do.  Sure should not be necessary, but I reckon they should smack down the clowns.  The other observation is that the WL's that do contribute here regularly are damn good at smacking them down,  Example Emma, and Inga.  I recall reading a topic a short while ago, and a WL called Foxy, did the all time smack down ever of some guy, it was really good and so funny. Wish I could find it again, I was going to bump it.    

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